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Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

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Danut-Alin
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Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Danut-Alin » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:19 pm

Continuam prezentarea uneltelor utile dezvoltatorilor de sisteme aquaponics, supunandu-va atentiei modelul creat de dr. Lennard Wilson pentru dimensionarea patului de cultura in sisteme tip hobby.

Este un instrument extraordinar, avand la baza elemente stiintifice si ingineresti, ce face pentru prima data legatura intre volumul bazinului de peste, alimentatia pestilor si suprafata cultivata cu vegetale.

Imi face placere sa va pot prezenta, pe langa documentatia originala ce insoteste modelul, si traducerea in limba romana a acestei documentatii.

Sper sa va fie de folos!

Documentatia tradusa
http://rapidshare.com/files/450734955/model_dimensionare_tradus.doc
Documentatia originala
http://www.aquaponic.com.au/Aquaponic%20media%20bed%20sizing%20model%20explanation.pdf

MODELUL EXCEL - metric
http://www.aquaponic.com.au/Aquaponic%20media%20bed%20sizing%20-%20metric%20model.xls

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mihai hammer
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby mihai hammer » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:09 pm

Nu numai de folos, ci mura-n gura, vorba romanului.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Acvaponia salveaza Romania (se scandeaza)

http://www.SatVacantaBradulet.ro - un alt mod de a petrece timpul liber

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Edy
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Edy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:37 am

In fisierul excel al lui Wilson Lennard mai existe si un al 2 sheet numit "Basic Calculation Sheet".
As avea cateva intrebari legate de acest sheet.
- daca densitatea pestilor este mai mare decat 20 mergand catre 30 sau 40 kg/m3, atunci
la Part C - "Water remaining in fish tank" casuta E38 va fi negativa !!, deci modelul nu accepta decat
densitati de maxim 20 kg/m3?
- la fel si la Part B - exista un ln(Ci - C*/Ce - C*), unde C* (mg/L)=7.8+0.063*Concentratia deseuri solide,
Ce=Required solid waste concentration (mg/L/day)=15 si Ci=Solid waste concentration (mg/L/day)
aici Ce e dat ca fiind egal cu 15, de ce 15? pentru ca daca avem o densitate mai mare de 20kg/m3
atunci valoarea ln va fi negativa ceea ce e imposibil
- in fisierul explicativ doc se spune la un moment dat ca pentru densitati mai mari de peste (peste 20kg/m3)
sunt necesare alte calcule si alte formule. unde gasim aceste calcule si formule?

multumesc

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Danut-Alin
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Danut-Alin » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:33 am

Eu nu vad acest al doilea sheet, ce Office folosesti?

Eu consider instrumentul util, ideal pentru sisteme hobby. Cred ca asta a fost ideea de baza, pentru sisteme comerciale nu va da nimeni prea multe detalii, asta presupune consultanta de specialitate si costuri. Mai am ceva calculatoare, mixate de un domn din Belgia din informatii culese din diferite surse, promit ca am sa le pun in cateva zile.

Daca afli raspunsuri la oricare din intrebarile tale, te rog sa le impartasesti cu noi. Doar asa putem evolua, IMPREUNA!

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Edy
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Edy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:34 pm

fisierul de dimensionare este parolat. Am folosit "Advanced Office XP Password Recovery" pentru
decriptare si apoi unhide la al doilea sheet. Apoi sunt niste casute scrise cu alb, astea trebuiesc scrise
cu alta culoare.
momentan incerc sa vad care sunt semnificatiile formulelor folosite. chiar daca ele
sunt rezultate din experimente sau empirice.

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Danut-Alin
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Alte calculatoare

Postby Danut-Alin » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:47 am

Dupa cum am promis, gasiti aici si celelalte calculatoare.

Sunt arhivate si protejate prin parola. Parola o puteti obtine solicitand-o la secure @ aquaponica.ro Metoda este greoaie, imi cer scuze pentru acest aspect, dar , desi nu sunt secrete de stat, sunt informatii pe care nici autorul nu le impartaseste cu toata lumea. Asa ca doar membrii inregistrati si activi vor primi parola pentru dezarhivare. Multumesc pentru intelegere!

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Edy
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Edy » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:21 am

Multumesc !

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Edy
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Edy » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:51 am

Am extras formulele din fisierul lui Wilson Lennard.
Daca intelegeti semnificatiile formulelor sa-mi dati si mie de stire.
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Edy
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Edy » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:57 am

In incercarea de a intelege semnificatiile am contactat forumul lui Murray Hallam.
Reproduc mai jos mesajul meu cat si raspunsul lui Murray Hallam.

"Hello from Romania,

i've descovery this forum from short time and i very apreciaded it.
Is very much informations here and so many interesting people.


i need some advice from you about the Dr. Lennard's excel model.
I am interesed to Deep water Culture and Dr. Lennard say we can
use this file for DWC system.
So, the questions are:

1. In the Mr. Murray Hallam's Aquaponics Secrets Surface area of filter is the 6 sponges?
And is counted 2 times because are 2 faces? see Picture 1

2. The Biofilter volume required (L) from the excel file is the volume of water (the filter volume +
the swirl filter + drop zone ) from the picture 1?

3. How Mr. Murray remove the sediments, or is not? He leave there for the compost tea? see picture 2

4. In the excel file Required solid waste concentration (mg/L/day) = 15 mg/L/day
it is possible to have 16 mg/L/day? from what depend that? see picture 3

5. What are the constants from Surface area of filter's formula? see picture 3.

Thank you in advance and sorry about my english. "

Raspunsul lui Murray Hallam:

"Hi to Alimos,
Welcome to the forum.
We have done a lot of work on the very thing you ask in regard to bio filtration in a strictly raft system over the last three years.

Unfortunately it is proprietry information that is only available to our commercial clients.

The tool by Dr Wilson Lennard is very useful indeed and is very much on the conservative side. It is aimed primarily as a guide to folk building home media based systems. "


si link-ul http://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=29260#post29260
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Edy
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Re: Model de dimensionare a patului de cultura

Postby Edy » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:03 am

Am mers chiar mai departe, chiar pana la sursa, adica la Dr. Wilson Lennard.
Redau mai jos intrebarile (in negru) si raspunsurile (in rosu), in speranta ca poate voi veti reusi sa intelegeti mai bine.

"Hello Edy,

Please find my responses below.

regards,

Wilson




Hello from Romania Dr. Lennard ,
i've descoverit your site from short time and i very apreciaded it.
Is very much informations here.

i need some advice from you about the excel model.
You say we can use this file for DWC system.
So, the questions are:
1. In the Mr. Murray Hallam's Aquaponics Secrets Surface area of filter is the 6 sponges?
And is counted 2 times because are 2 faces? see Picture 1


Sorry, I am unaware of this system or approach. The model I provide gives you the biofilter media volume required and so that is the volume of the biofilter you should use. i don't use the foam filter screens I see in the picture you have provided, so cannot say much about that.

2. The Biofilter volume required (L) from the excel file is the volume of water (the filter volume + the swirl filter + drop zone ) from the picture 1?


No. The model outputs the volume of biological media required to biofilter the system fish waste. It does not include swirl filter or other things; just the biofilter media volume required.

3. How Mr. Murray remove the sediments, or is not? He leave there for the compost tea? see picture 2


I think you should ask Mr Murray about his equipment. I am sorry, i use a different approach to him. I am unsure how he manages his systems.

4. In the excel file Required solid waste concentration (mg/L/day) = 15 mg/L/day
it is possible to have 16 mg/L/day? from what depend that? see picture 3


I have discovered that the file can be opened when it isn't supposed to be (Microsoft is not very safe!). I have set the values so the model gives the putputs for backyard systems. The 15mg/L figure is a low SS figure, but in a commercial operation it is still high. You shouldn't need to re-set anything in the model. This figure (15mg/L) was chosen as a desired ss concentration because most media based systems run at a lower ss, so it will always work.

5. What are the constants from Surface area of filter's formula? see picture 3.

Thank you in advance and sorry about my english.


As I say, the model was provided in a single sheet form for all suers. You appear to have been able to open the calculation sheets. The constants are standard constants for the media bed system approach to solids treatment. I do not understand why you are concentrating on the solids treatment proportion of the model when you asked whether it could be sued for a deep flow system.
Good luck,

Wilson
"


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